Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  December 6, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

5:00 pm
but this also shows how far the gop has fallen. since mitt romney's big loss last month the gop is in trouble. like the jets. infighting and losses is a problem. while the republicans haven't quite experienced their own butt fumble yet, they might not be far off. the jets last game of the season is december 30th. one day before the fiscal deadline. they have time. jets, you have time to triumph. time to look at where you are and where you want to be. there. no buts about that. anderson cooper "360" starts now. erin, thanks. good evening, everyone. we begin tonight as we do every night keeping them honest. not taking sides for pulling for democrats or republicans. you can get that on plenty of cable channels. real reporting. finding the truth. calling out hypocrisy or a baffling case of flip flopping. we've been doing some digging on a story we reported on last night, frankly.
5:01 pm
it gets stranger and stranger. stay with me. it is basically weird. on tuesday, the senate rejected a u.s. treaty aimed at protecting the rights of disabled people around the world. it is modeled on the americans for disability act. 125 other countries ratified it but in the full senate 38 republicans voted no leaving it 5 votes short of ratification. what we learned today is that some of the very same senators actually supported the treaty before they voted against it. some even pledged their support publicly. senator roy blunt of missouri was a flip flopper and kay bailey hutchison and jerry moran of kansas. they all declined to come on the program. they're silent. senator moran was a cosponsor of the measure to ratify the treaty and put a press release back in may proclaiming support for the treaty. i want to show you something else. here's senator moran with former senator bob dole in june. dole, a war veteran, a listening time supporter of disability
5:02 pm
rights and advocate of this treaty. just before tuesday's vote, he came to the senate chamber, 89, frail in the wheelchair and thought it was that important to be there. some of the senators like senator moran broke their word and blocked the treaty. others voted no and we don't know why. those are the names scrolling there, scrolling next to me. we call eed nearly all of them, too. why did they vote no? they wouldn't come on, we can't know for sure but what we do know is this. powerful conservative groups lobbied aggressively against the treaty, heritage foundation, the family research council and rick santorum's patriot pac and they used facts that weren't true like this. >> this is a direct assault on us and our family. to hand over to the state the
5:03 pm
ability to make medical determinations and see what is in the best interest of the child and not look at the wonderful gift that every child is. >> now, former senator and presidential kapd date rick santorum led the charge against the u.n. treaty and brought his 4-year-old disabled daughter bella to the events and warned it threatened american sovereignty and allow the u.n. to make decisions about disabled children in america. that is not true. here's what senator john kerry said last night. >> well, i have great respect for both rick and his wife karen and their daughter and their family. he's a strong family man. but he either simply hasn't read the treaty or doesn't understand it or he was just not factual in what he said. because the united nations has absolutely zero, zero, i mean, zero ability to order or to tell
5:04 pm
or to even -- i mean, they can suggest, but they have no legal capacity to tell the united states to do anything other this treaty. nothing. >> well, as we told you last night former republican, repeat, republican attorney general testified before the senate foreign relations committee in july basically saying exactly that. there's no nothing in the treaty that interferes with u.s. laws. that didn't stop senator santorum to send out this e-mail. you did it. you made it happen. if it weren't for you the united states senate wouldn't have defeated the united nations convention on the rights of persons with disables and said it would have given the u.n. oversight of the health care and education choices parents with special needs kids need to make. had it been the law of the land it would have trumped state laws and could have been used as precedent by state and federal judges. that is not true. so, why the fudging of facts and
5:05 pm
we asked senator santorum on the program. he, too, declined. we can only guess the motivations and frankly some of this is kind of so baffling we'd be taking wild guesses and we don't want to do that. the treaty supporters including senator kerry say that politics and a paranoia about the u.n. trumped the rights of the disabled in this vote. ted kennedy jr., the son of the late senator kennedy is a health care attorney and advocate for people with disabilities. when he was 12 years old he lost his leg to bone cancer. that's a picture taken six years after that. he's a strong supporter of the treaty and not ginn up on it. i spoke to him earlier today. >> it sounds to me, it's one thing to lose based on facts and another thing to lose based on things that are completely made up and seems like you lost based on stuff that had nothing to do with the actual treaty. >> well, it is true. it's a sad day for people with disables and a sad day for the u.s. senate because you ask yourself, anderson, who could be against a treaty that basically
5:06 pm
affords people with disabilities the same rights and opportunities as everyone else that doesn't cost the united states one extra penny? we're talking about affording disabled americans including disabled american veterans the same opportunities overseas as they have here at home. unfortunately, our cause, the cause of disability rights, was caught up in u.n. politics. and the politics of home schooling and rick santorum and glenn beck, the politics of the far right that intimidated many senators including seven senators who had verbally affirmed their support for this bill, including senator moran who was the cosponsor. >> he actually -- >> of the treaty. >> he actually -- >> voted against treaty. >> he stood by john mccain's side and supporting this and did he give you any reason why he reversed himself? >> well, i think in the last week or so, a lot of fiction, a
5:07 pm
lot of innuendo was drummed up by senator mike lee and senator rick santorum and how it might impact homeschooling and has absolutely nothing to do with the treaty itself. >> this treaty does not affect u.s. law. >> no, it doesn't affect u.s. law but evidently they didn't feel like it was guarantees they were looking for, but in fact, when it passed the foreign relations committee on the 13-6 vote, a number of these concerns were actually incorporated. >> this was really a treaty about people with disabilities overseas. >> this is about bringing the rest of the world up to the u.s. standards. okay? and so it does impact americans who travel overseas. who go work overseas. somebody who -- somebody with a disable to stay in a hotel in a foreign country or work in a foreign country or hail a taxi
5:08 pm
in a foreign country and impacts 600 million people around the world. children with disabilities around the world who do not have access to a public school education. it affords them huge rights and for the united states to not be in the vanguard, we have been in the forefront of disability rights and disability rights has always been a bipartisan cause in -- from the rehab act of 1973 to special education where people like my dad worked with senator orrin hatch, so many other republicans in a bipartisan way because disability crosses every single socio economic barrier so i think what's upsetting about this vote, disability law that was never political before is politicized. >> besides john mccain, former senator dole, you had dick thornburgh, former attorney general who i guess is the father of a disabled child? >> that's correct, yeah. >> if anybody would know about
5:09 pm
the impact of the u.s. law, the former attorney general of the united states would have a pretty good idea if this impacted u.s. law. >> i think that's a very good point. we did have eight republicans and i take my hat off to them because they had to face very stiff pressure by the far right not to join with the democrats to vote this treaty. as you know, we need 66 votes to pass a treaty in the country. but we had the support of former president bush, president herbert walker bush. as you mentioned, dick thornburgh, former attorney general who understands u.s. law probably better than anybody else in the country. we had people like senator bob dole and his wife elizabeth who were on the floor at the time. who's been a staunch advocate for disability policy. so this shouldn't be, anderson, this should not be a partisan issue. the rights of people with disabilities. i mean, come on. and yet, it has been politicized, unfortunately. >> are you hoping that next year
5:10 pm
you might bring this up again? >> yes. we are going to come back. as you know, you know, it took for africans, for gay americans, for women the struggle for equal rights and justice took many, many years and so, too, it is in the disability rights movement. and, you know, i just think this cause, this treaty will happen because it's inevitable. how can you deny the rights of millions of people around the world and will come back. senator kerry made a promise to bring it back. and, you know, we're hoping one day that this treaty will pass in the very near future, in fkt. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you for raising this important issue, anderson. >> let us know what you think. i'll be tweeting tonight. growing fears the conflict in syria could soon enter a more horrifying new chapter with possible chemical weapons. we want to talk about what such an attack would mean for the people of syria. the death toll alone according to an estimate could be staggering. we also want to see if this is
5:11 pm
just hype and given the situation, with u.s. experience in iraq, there's people that think it's loose talk to encourage an intervention in syria. we'll talk to a former cia officer about that and sanjay gupta. plus an activist inside syria and what he has to say about the potential threat, next. i'm doing my own sleep study.
5:12 pm
advil pm® or tylenol pm. the advil pm® guy is spending less time lying awake with annoying aches and pains and more time asleep. advil pm®. the difference is a better night's sleep. so, the 5.3-liter v8 silverado can tow up to 9,600 pounds? 315 horsepower. what's that in reindeer-power? [ laughs ] [ pencil scratches ] [ male announcer ] chevy's giving more. get the best offer of the year -- 0% apr financing for 60 months plus $1,000 holiday bonus cash. plus trade up for an additional $1,000 trade-in allowance. hurry. bonus cash ends january 2nd.
5:13 pm
[ female announcer ] holiday cookies are a big job. everything has to be just right. perfection is in the details. ♪ get to holiday fun faster with pillsbury cookie dough. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one. together for your future. ♪
5:14 pm
syria's government under scrutiny tonight as the world awaits the a sad's next move. as we told you last night, nbc news is reporting that syria's actually loading chemical weapons in to bombs. cnn has not confirmed the nbc report. all of this comes amid a string of opposition victories.
5:15 pm
recently they took control of key oil fields, saw advances in aleppo and reports suggest they surround the capital of damascus. an opposition spokesman told cnn they started what they believe to be the end battle of this war. if the intelligence on the chemical weapons, though, is true, the latest advances by the opposition seem to add incentives to the syrian government to use them. assad regime claims the reports are being used to justify an international invasion. after more than 20 months of fighting and more than 40,000 civilian deaths, the civil war appears to be at a crossroads. tonight i spoke to a syrian opposition activist. the reporting that the assad regime might be preparing to use chemical weapons are -- are people there aware of the possibility and if so what's been the reaction? >> well, i mean, it's just
5:16 pm
possible. yes. because if you ask me a few weeks or a few months ago, would the regime use jet fighters, i would have told you i doubt. but now, the regime is using jet fighters against the people why wouldn't the regime use chemical weapons? now, they're saying there's no concrete evidence of a sign of so. just media reports. however, people are really panicking. >> at this point, what do you hope for? what do people there -- if there's hope of somehow stopping this slaughter, what is the hope? i mean, is the hope that someone will intervene, the united states, nato or, i mean, there's been a lot of hope of that in the past, obviously, it hasn't happened. what are you hoping for now? is there hope? >> well, for me, i mean, personally, for the majority of the syrian people, nobody has any hope in anything. okay?
5:17 pm
there's just continuing until the people will because this is -- this is happening for sure. i mean, we'll win in the end. we are sure that the international community would not do anything at all, would not do anything. nobody cares about us. everybody cares for their interests. that's it. we understand that now. very much clearly. we are not scared -- i mean, i'm not scared of the chemical weapon. does it make a difference to die with a bullet or a chemical weapon? which death is more painful? with chemical weapons or with bullet? i haven't tried both types of death but i don't think there's a difference whether you are dying with chemical weapons or with a mortar with a tank shell, with a rocket, with a bullet. i don't know why people would care about chemical attacks. >> did you ever think it would
5:18 pm
get to this point? how do you get through each day? because as you say, the world has just watched this happen. and we continue to watch it happen every night. >> well, anderson, simply stated like this. when the syrian people started their revolution, they wanted freedom. justice for all. democracy. we expect -- we know this regime is -- we expected brutality but not this. at least not for me. no, i didn't expect this. i didn't expect to happen anyplace on the globe. nowhere. not even in alfred hitchcock's movie. nobody could think of what we are seeing right now. is it worth it? yes. thank god we have the revolution. i don't know how we lived with this regime for four decades. thank god we have the
5:19 pm
revolution. we are paying lives. our life is just ruined. just ruined. but thank god we have this. i thank god we tested the international community so that we understand in the future that this is our own problem. no one cares about anyone in this world. and thank god we will win this battle on our own without anybody eels help. enough. enough. even if it takes us another 100,000 people, enough. this is not a regime. this is anything you can -- i don't know what you want to call it. killing, killing, killing, shelling, shelling, mortars, jet fighters, helicopters, rockets. against what? civilians. enough. >> thank you very much for talking. >> thank you. >> you heard the fear of sarin
5:20 pm
gas is real tonight. what are people facing if the regime does use what they have or believe to have? i spoke with cnn former contributor and chief medical correspondent sanjay gupta. bob, we talked about this last night but explain again what one warhead filled with sarin could do. >> you know, one of these shells and the standard shell of syrians put this in is a 122 millimeter shell which goes artillery piece and if they were to drop this in to a dense area, in to damascus or a suburb of homs, doesn't matter which town, it would instantly kill 18,000 first the few minutes. >> just from one shell? >> go up there. one single shell would immediately kill 18,000 people. you know, this is a liquid. it's dispersed. it sticks on you. you get a few -- a little bit in
5:21 pm
your system and you're dead. >> sanjay, what does it do to somebody that comes in contact with it? >> it affects the particular receptors in the brain and let me preface it by saying it's odorless, tasteless and colorless and hard to know, you know, this it's there because of those things and also by tou touching as bob was staying or inhaling it or water contaminated with it, you can also get poisoned so you see, this is a substance that can affect you in many different ways and might know it's there. top from bottom, it's like the on switch on the bottom is on. the pupils are constricts. headaches. a flushing almost in the nose and sinuses. you become very congested and ultimately like the on switch is stuck on in your body and can lead to convulsions and the diagram which allows you to breathe, it seizes up and then
5:22 pm
that leads to respiratory failure and death. >> there is an anecdote but how soon do you have to use it? >> very early. you may remember when we were overseas we were given the kits with one, a few vials because you give it once and then you may have to give it again a few minutes later. it essentially sort of -- it works as sort of unstuck that on button. but it has to be given quickly if it's given. >> the other thing i found alarming, bob, from what you and i talked about is that, you know, we think, okay, well you can bomb these sites from the air and eliminate them but that doesn't work. >> well, anderson, it doesn't work because if you hit one of these sites and especially there's multiple shells, at the site, it just disperses the material. so, it's not like we can go in with pinpoint bombing and destroy them from the air which would be ideal if we could because it will kill everybody
5:23 pm
in, you know, in a wide swath of a city or a base. >> how do you have to try to -- do you have to dismantle the stuff on the ground? >> you have to dismantle it. apparently there are teams out there that could possibly go in at some point. 18-man teams. but, you know, you'd have to fight your way. in that's the problem. we're talking about an invasion of syria to really secure these sites. at the very last minute, they could move the stuff around. the intelligence is not perfect. the syrians could explode it in the middle of an attack. you just don't know. there are no good options for disposing of this stuff. >> is it known how much he has? >> i don't know how much he has. you know, for me, the important thing is and i keep on getting this question is, well, we heard this about iraq, they had weapons of mass destruction. >> people are skeptical. that is pretext by some getting involved in syria. >> it's not, anderson.
5:24 pm
i assure you. u.s. intelligence community was deep in to syrian vx and sarin and knows all about it. this is not being hyped. at any level. >> let me just push back on that. i mean, if this stuff has existed in syria for, you know, all the time that assad's been in power and hasn't been used, why -- and it seems to have been stored safely thus far, where's the proof that it's, you know, been put in to warheads or, you know, how do we know for sure? >> that's the question. has it, in fact, been put in warheads? has it, in fact, been mixed? sanjay could address this but i believe you have a couple of weeks to use these things once it's been mixed. we also don't know at what point would the assad regime resort the using sarin. it's my hypothesis they will if
5:25 pm
they're starting to get slaughtered. it could happen. they will use it. >> sanjay, for people who are at risk, i mean in areas where the assad regime could or might use them or another group, what can they do to protect themselves? is there something to do to prepro tekt yourself? >> they presumably don't have access to the medication. you have to get out of the area but keep in mind this -- because it's odorless and tasteless and very hard to detect, you have to get out of area and also because you can get poisoned again by ingestion and inhaling or simply touching it, it can be on the clothes, the clothes could be a vehicle so you get out of the way. you take off your clothes or anything that may have been exposed to it, soap and water, rinse your body as much as also. one thing is it's a heavier gas compared to that what's in that area and lingers closer to the ground and getting to higher elevation can help. it sounds simplistic but short of a medication given right away, that's not much else you
5:26 pm
can do. >> really scary stuff. bob baer appreciate it. sanjay, as well. the cover on "the new york post" that captured the final moment of a man's life before he was run over by a subway train, i'll speak to the man that took that photograph next. ♪we're two of a kind ♪two of a kind ♪it's my observation ♪we're two of a kind ♪like peas in a pod ♪and birds of a feather ♪alone or together you'll find ♪that we are two-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo, oo-oo-oo, of a kind♪ of washington about the future of medicare and social security. anncr: but you deserve straight talk about the options on the... table and what they mean for you and your family. ancr: aarp is cutting through all the political spin.
5:27 pm
because for our 37 million members, only one word counts. get the facts at let's keep medicare... and social security strong for generations to come. but they have to use special care in keeping the denture clean. dentures are very different to real teeth. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident is designed to clean dentures daily. its unique micro-clean formula kills 99.9% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains, cleaning in a better way than brushing with toothpaste. that's why i recommend using polident. [ male announcer ] polident. cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. home of the legendary grand prix circuit. the perfect place to bring the all-new cadillac ats to test the 2.0-liter turbo engine. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ derek ] 272 horsepower. the lightest in its class.
5:28 pm
the cadillac ats outmatches the bmw 3 series. i cannot believe i have ended the day not scraping some red paint off on these barriers. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cadillac ats. plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day women's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day 50+. hundreds of children working on a ranch under orders of jailed to mig list warren jeffs. wait until you see what they did when gary tuchman got on the scene. they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please?
5:29 pm
ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.
5:30 pm
well, his death shocked new york city. today the family of man shoved on the subway tracks and in to the path of an oncoming train gathered for his funeral a day after the suspect was arraigned on second-degree murder charges. there's still, of course, questions of what exactly happened on that subway platform. this "the new york post" cover is perhaps the enduring image
5:31 pm
showing the failed attempt to get out of the oncoming train. many that saw that asking why no one was able to get him off the tracks. the photographer took the picture, faced the most scrutiny and joins me now in a live prime tyke exclusive. i appreciate you being here. >> thank you for having me. >> we are not paying you for this interview. you did not request any money or would we pay for an interview. you wanted us to make that clear. >> correct. >> at what point did you realize something was going on? i mean, there was an altercation between this man mr. han the alleged suspect. >> right. >> did you see him being -- did you see that altercation? >> no. i had entered the subway station from the 46 side. 47th street. and i had walked in about 100 feet in to the station. i was not aware of any confrontation. and from my peripheral vision i
5:32 pm
saw a body being flung on to the tracks and there was a collective gasp that went in to the air that really got my attention. >> you could kind of hear a gasp from other people? >> correct. because the train travels from north to south and i was at the southern end so you know somehow the wind and the sound travels that wind. >> how far away were you from mr. han? >> i can guess from now on hindsight and looking at the photograph with how many cars were in to it and where mr. han was, i was about 200 feet in to the station and i have learned that a new york subway station is about 600 feet so probably mr. han from the entrance there, he was maybe another 100 feet so there is about i would say 400 feet. >> you had your camera in your hand? >> yes. you were there for another assignment, you were just happened to be there. >> correct. >> what was your initial reaction? what did you do instantly start to do? >> well, people started waving
5:33 pm
their hands and screaming because a few moments earlier they had made an announcement that the train will be approaching the station. and i could see the distant lights of the approaching train. >> we're showing the one photo you took and you can't -- it looks like mr. han is on the track and you don't see the train. was the train far away at that point? >> you see out in the distance there's a little long line and that is the lights -- those are the lights of the train are and they're bouncing off the rails. okay. so even at that point and very dark, there was a train approaching at that point in. >> absolutely. >> okay. i think when people saw that picture and didn't see a train, it seemed like he is just sitting on the track. somebody could have helped him. >> right, correct. and from where i was, i could have screamed my lungs out probably nobody would have heard it.
5:34 pm
since my camera is always in my hand and always on and it goes in to sleep mode, and the only way i thought at that moment was to start clicking away, using the shutter to fire the flash and maybe -- >> you thought that might warn the conductor? >> yes. this is unusual. there's a burst of light hitting him and catch mr. han on the track. >> this is the next photo. were you looking through the viewfinder? >> no, no. >> it was stable, you know, and on what you call on the street as shooting from the hip. >> you had just the camera out just shooting like that? >> no. out here. >> out to the side? >> yeah. to the side, stable and shooting. >> i understand you said there were other people much closer to him than you were. >> yes. absolutely. in the photograph if you look at it, maybe lighten it up, you see a group of people out there and that is where the north side of
5:35 pm
the entrance is on 49th street. >> and i mean, i've been in situations where in riots where people have been beat anna nicole front of me, killed in front of me. i've been in situations and taken pictures of it and intervened. you never know. i personally believe until you have been in this situation it's very easy to sit at home and judge based on pictures saying i would do this but until you've been in a situation with a potential threat to yourself, you don't know how you're going to react. did you -- did you realize there had been an altercation? did you realize there was a suspect? and did you see that suspect? >> i got a blur of this suspect and i had imagined, you know, we all imagine what we would do in a situation like that. but when you are in a situation, at least myself, when the situation actually happened, instinct took over and all those plans that you do this, you do
5:36 pm
that, you -- one reacts and that is what i reacted. and that is the best way i thought that i could alert the conductor. and i started moving towards running towards mr. han and i saw a man approaching me and that was the person who had pushed mr. han and i realized because he seemed agitated and as he was approaching, he was cursing or using 0 profanities and he went by me and i saw him coming. i braced myself and stood on the side. >> you were actually worried about him doing something to you? >> yeah. pushing me on to the tracks realizing that he had just pushed mr. han on the tracks. >> so you're going toward mr. han but this man is coming toward you? >> yes. >> the suspect. >> correct. >> you go against the wall. >> correct. >> so the suspect is actually moving away from mr. han and there are other people who are closer who the suspect is moving away from so theoretically if
5:37 pm
other people were to be involved they were closer to mr. han and further away from the suspect than you were? >> correct. that is a correct analysis. >> so, i also understand that after mr. han was hit and apparently a doctor present or there was a lady who was a doctor, i believe -- >> correct. >> started doing cpr and someone else in the crowd, people in the crowd gathered around and with their cell phone cameras were taking pictures. >> yes. they were. the crowd totally closed on and i had to stand and try to move them back. >> at that point, were you still taking pictures? >> i moved them back. i took maybe a few shots of the stretcher and the firemen had come and there was some crowd control going on. >> in retrospect, do you feel you should have done something different? or could have done something different? >> until one is in that situation, it's very hard to say. and on hindsight, i would say i
5:38 pm
would -- had mr. han, run the other direction. and looking at the image on it, there were only about three cars in to the station and all he had to do was outrun three cars and he would have lived. >> his wife early reports he was drinking. i believe some alcohol found on him, as well. >> i'm not aware of that. i'm not aware of his interaction with his wife. >> right. for you, what has this been like? not only to witness an event like this is horrific but then to come under the kind of criticism you have come under from people who were not there, what is that like? >> they were not there. they are, you know, i look at them as armchair critics and when you are in a situation, you realize what it is and it was a very fluid situation. the photographs are still. you see the train and you see mr. han at one spot.
5:39 pm
but in reality, the train is moving towards him. i do not know what speed it is but it was really fast. the whole thing happened really fast. >> i also find it interesting because i read your account in "the new york post" the next day which i found changed the way i looked at the situation, frankly. when i heard your account. >> right. >> that's why i wanted to have you on because i think it's important to have your voice on this but you didn't know what photos you had. you brought the police back to the post office and they looked at the photos. >> correct. >> you had no idea what you had captured an i no. no idea. these photos are dark. i'm a professional, you know, i take good photographs if i may say for myself and these photographs were dark because my camera had the settings of times square. it was a bright day. and so was my flash gun. if i set my camera to take photographs in a subway i would be firing at full power and the
5:40 pm
flash cam doesn't recharge so fast on full power unless i'm carrying battery pack on my waist. >> have you ever seen somebody being killed before? >> no. i never. it's very traumatic experience and like every time if i i have to narrate the whole thing, it's reliving it. i did not sleep for close to 36, 40 hours. >> and obviously we talked about his funeral. to his family, what would you say? >> i -- as i have said earlier that mrs. han, if i could have, i would have saved him. it wasn't important to get the photograph. the photograph came out as a result of my effort or what i could think at that moment to do. even at this moment, i think, you know, i wish i had the presence of mine to say, mr. han, run in the other direction. i did hear people saying, get up, get up.
5:41 pm
but i don't know why anyone did not reach out. i live with the image, the first night i could not sleep. i could hear the sounds. i don't want to be too graphic about it for respect for the family but i could hear all of the sounds. mr. han did not scream or anything. this is how fast it transpired. you look at the photograph and it's like -- it's chilling to me even today. it's like a man looking at his end. and the oncoming train, the metaphor for it, death staring him down. >> you didn't have a photo where the photo was published on the front page of the paper so i won't really ask you about that but i guess -- again, i -- you know, my position on this is -- and it's really changed that until you near a situation, you
5:42 pm
don't know what someone has gone through and i'm sorry you were in that situation. i appreciate you coming on to talk about it. >> thank you very much for having me. >> thank you. coming up, another story that's really a story we have been following for years now. the youngest members of the polygamist sect run by warren jeffs. why are hundreds of kids doing manual labor on a ranch without getting paid?
5:43 pm
duchess katherine left the hospital today. an update ahead. i took dayquil, but i still have a runny nose. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't work on runny noses. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have an antihistamine.
5:44 pm
really? [ male announcer ] really. alka-seltzer plus cold and cough fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a fast acting antihistamine to relieve your runny nose. [ sighs ] thank you! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ [ male announcer ] to learn more about the cold truth and save $1 visit alka-seltzer on facebook.
5:45 pm
tonight, "360" follow and a glimpse inside the fundamentalist church of latter day saints the flds. warren jeffs is in prison serving a life sentence for sexually assaulting two underage girls he had taken as his bride.
5:46 pm
the state of texas asked to seize compound where jeffs and others abuse kids. they deny abuse took place there. now we are learning in the absence of jeff that is church members are raising money and they're using the youngest members to do it. the church normally reclusive community rarely ventures outside the seclusion of their private ranches in large groups but that's exactly what happened this week and gary tuchman caught up with them. here's what happened. >> reporter: we received a tip that warren jeffs had ordered all schools closed for a week. so children could go to work picking pecans off trees at a private ranch. we did not know what to expect driving to the outskirts of hurricane, utah. 23 miles northwest of their fundamentalist enclave. holy cow. >> the tip was true. hundreds of children, many of them very small working on a ranch. they were accompanied by some mothers and a few men but it was
5:47 pm
mostly the kids. >> there they go. >> yeah. >> reporter: when we got out of the car, we saw something that caught us off guard. children and their mothers scattering. first slowly and then picking up steam. running in the opposite direction. they were given an urgent directive to get away from us. the paranoia among leaders is intense. and that's because they know we're here to ask questions. like why is it okay to pull the children out of school just so they can toil as free laborers and what's happening with all the money they're making? we do know that the property the ranch is on is owned by a nevada businessman not in the flds. i reached the man's nephew on the phone. he works with his uncle. on that ranch, we were there and saw hundreds of children from the flds, the fundamentalist latter day saints church harvesting the pecans. we're wondering if that's an
5:48 pm
arrangement you know about. the nephew said somebody else would get back to me with answers but nobody did. we went to las vegas looker for the property owner. we went to his company's office. do you run the office? >> i'm just -- i'm the recept n receptionireceptio receptionist. >> reporter: okay. is he here? >> no. >> do you know where he is? >> i do not. >> reporter: is there anyone else here that might know where he is? 0. >> hope. >> reporter: he tried to find him at home but he's in a private gated community. law enforcement authorities believe the money made from harvesting pecans goes to warren jeffs and his church. mothers of some of the children i talked to off camera acknowledge they get no money for the work. men helping to maintain security as scores of vans and cars screaming in behind the gates not surprisingly unhelpful. sir, can we ask you a quick question? >> no, thank you. >> reporter: can you tell us why the children are out of school and making money for the church? while picking pecans. as the children who spent eight
5:49 pm
hours in the fields on this day continued to work, a neighbor who owned an adjacent farm let us on her land and arriving the flds pickers were chased away from us again. dorothy is a hog farmer and mother of two who say this is flds child labor gone for a week or two for many years and feels desperately sorry for the flds children. >> they can't talk to other children or adults. >> reporter: coming up to the fence and picking pecans and ignore you? >> uh-huh or run. >> reporter: running from you? they run from us. >> yes. >> reporter: you're next door on the ranch. >> yes. in the past i have seen them here past dark and in the wintertime when it's cool. i mean, i don't let my kids out. once the sun starts to go out, it's too cold for children to be out, especially working. >> reporter: we went to the city hall in arizona where the flds is head quartered the try to find out what's going on. this is gary tuchman of cnn.
5:50 pm
i have a question if you can come to the door for a second. >> there's nobody here that -- >> reporter: well, you're here and says 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and right now it's 12:40 p.m. >> right. but i have no statement. you need to talk to the -- >> reporter: you have no statement. you don't know what the question is yet. >> i know it. >> reporter: you know it. okay. mothers did not want to talk either. i do know there's children in the community picking pecans in the pecan fields. not far from here. what do you think? >> i don't care to comment. thanks. >> reporter: another flds mother told her kids have fun picking the pecans. when i responded that school was canceled and families not ginn a choice about this, she declared it's all good done for god and for her profiphet, warren jeffs >> seems like it's done for the profit of the prophet warren jeffs. when's the legal implications of
5:51 pm
kids not paid? these are children working for free for a profit-making enterprise. >> reporter: i mean, there's certainly potential for legal peril here. does this landowner who's paying for this work to be done know that hundreds of children are doing the work? we don't know if he knows anything. that's why we came here to las vegas to answer some questions but he's had 28 hours to repond to us and we haven't gotten in touch with him yet an we want to know what the district attorney, the prosecutor in washington county, utah, thinks about this. he prosecuted warren jeffs successfully in the first of the two trials and asking him what he thought, he said i don't know anything about it. it's a well-kept secret. based of the facts in the report, he is telling us it raises a red flag and going to look in to it but too early to see what will happen legally. >> it's impossible to believe that somebody associated with the ranch didn't know that the children are working on it. not like, you know, somebody must know, whether the owner or not. gary, great reporting. thank you.
5:52 pm
john mcafee is no longer on the run tonight but in a police hospital. the latest developments on that coming up. [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- you can stay in and share something... ♪ ♪ ...or you can get out there with your friends and actually share something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year.
5:53 pm
this is the pursuit of perfection. offering some of our best values of the year. i have obligations. cute tobligations, but obligations.g. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses.
5:54 pm
read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. every human being is unique. and there is one store that recognizes it. the sleep number store. the only place in the world you'll find the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number experience. an exclusive collection of innovations that totally individualize your sleep. perfectly comfortable pillows that adjust to your size and shape. temperature-balancing bedding. dual warmth comforters. all designed around the sleep number bed: a bed with dual-air technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs. each of your bodies. in the name of human individuality: the sleep number collection. discover how our sleep professionals can individualize your sleep experience. exclusively at one of our 400 sleep number stores nationwide. sleep number. comfort individualized. this holiday season, give the gift that's magical: the innovative airfit adjustable pillow at
5:55 pm
special 30% savings. a lot more happening tonight. susan hendrixes has the news and business bulletin. john mcafee was rushed to a guatemalan police hospital today with heart problems according to his attorney. it was hours after being rejected for asylum there. the lawyer says he'll fight the
5:56 pm
extradition to belize where they want to question him about his neighbor's murder. apple will start making a computer in the u.s. next year. tim cook says this move is part of an effort to boost the u.s. unemployment. apple has faced criticisms for working conditions in china. mom to be duchess of cambridge left the hospital where she was treated for acute morning sickness. her husband prince william escorted her to a waiting car. the palace has yet to announce a due date for the new royal. anderson? >> thanks very much. we'll be right back.
5:57 pm
one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future that puts us in control. our abundant natural gas is already saving us money, producing cleaner electricity, putting us to work here in america and supporting wind and solar. though all energy development comes with some risk, we're committed to safely and responsibly producing natural gas. it's not a dream. america's natural gas... putting us in control of our energy future, now.
5:58 pm
schwab bank was built with all the value and convenience tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 investors want. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like no atm fees, worldwide. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and no nuisance fees. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 plus deposit checks with mobile deposit. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and manage your cash and investments tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with schwab's mobile app. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 no wonder schwab bank has grown to over 70 billion in assets. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 so if you're looking for a bank that's in your corner, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 not just on the corner... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 call, click or visit to start banking with schwab bank today. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550
5:59 pm